Zierler (formerly known as Zierler Projects) is a bit of a super-group featuring amongst its ranks a great collective of musicians from all over the world in the progressive metal field. It also seems to in a “way” be an extension of the second chapter of “Beyond Twilight”, reuniting two of the protagonists, Finn Zierler (keys, orchestrations) and vocalist extraordinaire Kelly Sundown Carpenter (Darkology, ex-Firewind, Outworld), who had collaborated on the second BT album back in the day and bolstering their numbers with people like Truls from Circus Maximus on bass and additional vocals, Bobby Jarzombek (ex-Riot, Halford, Fates Warning etc.) on drums and Per Nilsson, who’s in Scar Summetry etc. manning the guitars. We sought out Sundown and asked him a bunch of questions about all this, here’s what he had to say...
Zierler’s “Esc”, much like Darkology took a “few” years to be released – are some of your releases kind of cursed with long waiting times?
K: I think you can chalk that up to the state of the music business. Because of illegal downloading, making an album happen is much more difficult for artists and labels. That’s just a reality we have to face.
When you departed from Beyond Twilight, the whole atmosphere – was at least bad – so how come you guys gave it a second “chance” and let bygones be bygones?
K: Finn and I have a great musical chemistry and we both thought it would be a waste not to create something together again. The past belongs to itself.
Since the band contains 2 guys that were in Beyond Twilight – the successor to Twilight – why didn’t you name the band Way Beyond Twilight (!) and do you consider Zierler Projects to be a bit of a continuation of that, or an entirely different entity?
K: I actually argued this very point but Finn wanted a fresh start. It was going to be called Zierler “Projects” in the beginning but we all discussed that and thought Zierler sounded a bit more organic.
On the album you have a great pool of talent – including you, Truls from Circus Maximus on bass and also more vocals, Bobby Jarzombek, who’s been in Riot, Halford, Fates Warning etc., on drums, obviously Finn on keys and Per, who's in Scar Summetry etc… a bit of a supergroup really. The question here is – was this album presented to the rest of “you” by Finn as a finished project – or were you able to add your own personal touch and performances to it?
K: Finn basically wrote the music and then Per fleshed it all out guitar-wise, adding a ton of his own flavor to the songs Per also played all of the bass on the album. Bobby wrote and played all of his own drum parts. Truls and I wrote the melodies. Finn also wrote most of the lyrics aside from the parts I wrote for “A New Beginning” and “Whispers”. In the end, the album wouldn’t be what it is without the contributions that each and every one of us brought to it.
Was the album done by sending files back and forth – or were you people all gathered at a specific point at one time to do the tracking?
K: There was quite a bit of solitary work going on, since we all live in different countries. I worked on some melody ideas independently and then decided to improvise most of the others while in the studio, which I really enjoyed. I’m not a big fan of recording demos because much of the magic can be lost when you come back and re-record something. So, for the parts that weren’t written yet, I just stood in front of the microphone tried something. Finn and I would listen back to those ideas and keep the parts we liked and build the melodies that way.
The album seems to have a constant theme concerning the ways in which computers and the internet are changing the way we interact with each other socially – taking quite a critical stance... what’s your take on that?
K: Social Media is a double edged sword. Many of us musicians owe our entire careers to being able to communicate via sites like Facebook. That said, on the whole it’s an incredibly empty way to interact with other human beings. For me, the new generation of kids seems to lack a connection to the Earth they live on and the beings they share it with. Instant gratification comes at a terrible price and being able to say cruel things (anonymously) to or about other people without paying any consequence is damaging to the order of things. It leads to a society which believes that nothing is sacred and that nothing has any value, including themselves.
Internet might have made communicating and promoting an album easier, but it also means that people can really get the album – instantly, without paying – which leads a lot of bands and projects to abject failure logistically / financially and finally disillusion and ceasing activities… is there any remedy to that?
K: The digital format was sort of a Trojan Horse in that sense, all these new possibilities but again it’s basically caused people to treat music as something that has no value. When I was a kid, you had to do odd jobs to scrape up enough money to buy an album you wanted. You would listen to it and if you didn’t “get it” on the first spin, you’d listen to it until you did! Because that’s the way the world works, you sacrifice for something that’s important to you. It gives life meaning. Now, people simply download (steal) an album it took years to create and ton of money to produce, they listen to it one time and post a review of it online in order make themselves seem important. Until musicians can download free food to put on our tables, we’ll be asking people to contribute through crowd funding campaigns and selling merchandise for what it takes to make things happen.
Let’s try and figure out, what you’re doing – actively… besides, Zierler and Darkology, who both released albums this year.
K: Recently I did some guest singing on an album called “Full Nothing”. It’s a very somber, melodic album influenced by Katatonia and Evergrey with some well know musicians and singers. Not my usual vocal pyrotechnics but it was nice for a change of pace. I’m always looking for new opportunities to do what I love, so we'll see what the future holds.
Adagio – they did release a couple of demos with you that sounded rather promising – are you still on track with them?
K: I got involved with Adagio a while back and recorded the demos you speak of years ago, since then Stephan (guitarist)has be doing his solo thing. The band has been completely inactive since, so I’ve moved on.
Iron Mask are a local band (to you) and you joined them, since you do seem to have a quiet “Mark Boals-y” higher end when you sing clean, but for now they seem to appear as a “past” band at least in metallum is it real… what happened?
K: With Iron Mask, I was announced a bit pre-maturely. As discussions went on, I realized it just wasn't the right situation for me. They’re nice guys and I wish them the best.
“The un-named project” for lack of a better description, between you and Christian Muezner (ex-Obscura). Is this thing still on?
K: I decided not to continue with that because I wanted to go in a bit of a different musical direction. That would have interfered with Christian’s vision, so I thought it was best to let someone else take over. He and I are still in contact and might do something in the future.
Epysode, Outworld, Firewind and Beyond Τwilight (strictly speaking) are no longer concerns, could you see yourself making a return to any of those projects at one point or other?
K: I’d definitely be into a Beyond Twilight reunion! As for Firewind, I’m still in contact with Gus, who knows, we might do something together again.
Of all the projects bands you’ve been involved in which one was the most gratifying for you as a singer and if you had to drop all others to do just one, which one would you pick?
K: Musically speaking, working with Finn (Beyond Twilight/Zierler) is probably the most gratifying thing I’ve done because it allows me to use my full voice and bring out many sides of myself as an artist and performer. I think he and I will always work together. Another experience that was incredibly important to me was my time with Firewind. We basically toured the world and played huge festivals like Sweden Rock to audiences of over 10,000 people. Being on the road and dealing with that sort of pressure, standing a delivering night after night is another exciting challenge. I’d like to get into another touring band of that caliber in the future.
“Esc” comes out on what I understand is a private entity owned by the band – weren’t any big labels interested in signing up this great “gathering” of musicians?
K: “Esc” has actually been released on Vanity Music Group, an independent record label. Zierler belongs to the underground and although it will get some attention based on the line-up alone and its great songs, we probably won’t have a single on pop radio anytime soon! Again, business-wise the landscape out there has changed drastically in a very short time.
Career wise, even though you’re incredibly talented, do you think the fact that you’ve hardly done more than one albums with any of the projects/bands, with maybe the exception of Darkology and the lack of a strong visual/press presence, has held you back from receiving more recognition? Also at this point in time is Zierler a project, or is a sophomore, at least planned?
K: I have to agree with you on the fact that most of the work that I’ve done has gotten very little exposure and that can be frustrating. Some of them were simply projects that would never tour and some simply fell apart due to a lack of label support or promotion. In this business, you never know when a big opportunity will come your way. You have to be ready for it, knowing that your time will come.
I know that you have tried out for some “famous” bands… was the fact that you were not chosen, their decision – (you don’t have to mention names if you don’t want) because of actual logistics, or because they felt that they had someone who fit the bill – slightly better (ie TMH – in Riot?)…
K: I’ve only auditioned for one band for which I didn’t get the job and that was Masterplan. In the end they chose Mike DiMeo from Riot. In the end, it’s their band and they have to choose who they think fits. I’ve been approached by a few other known bands in the past but turned them down because I just wasn’t into the music.
With the “Zierler” band musicians spread all over the globe, how realistic would the prospect of live performances be?
K: Logistically, a live performance by Zierler would be tough to pull off but you never know.
What’s next in “Kellyspace” obviously a possible tour with Darkology and then… can you divulge any future plans with any of the other bands?
K: I’m always up for new opportunities. We’ll see what happens next.
Weirdo Questions (we always do those to lighten up stuff)… Kelly Almighty– If you were God for a week, what would you do?
K: I’d probably create a domain where all of my friends and family could live which could never be detected by the outside world. A place in nature, where we could grow our own food and live a simple life, untouched by the modern world. Since I’d only be God for a week, wiping out poverty, war and corruption wouldn’t last very long... we are human after all.
Which one of the Seven Deadly Sins are you?
K: Perhaps I have a touch of gluttony. Belgian beer is just too good to resist!
If you could be someone else (man, woman, fictional character, historical figure) who would you chose to be and why?
K: I’ll say Merlin because he’s my favorite character. I’d like to live in a time when people believed in magic. I think the world we live in has pulled the wings off of the butterfly, so to speak. In seeking to understand the world we’ve picked it apart and destroyed our sense of wonder.
In this biz who deserves to be bitch slapped and why? (Don’t say me! Jahahhaha…)
K: Anyone who thinks they are more important than the fans and that goes for artists that believe their own hype.
If your wife/gf sold all of your albums to buy an expensive ring, how would you react? (doubt – you might have a big collection at least in Belgium in physical form– but selling the ring 4 beer is a firm popular! Hehe) all those are for fun remember! Hypothetical + silly.
K: Well, she’s a singer/musician too so that would never happen. Music is our life! Being in Belgium, I’ll trade the expensive jewelry for good Belgian beer any day!
Finish this up in any way you wish…
K: I’d like to thank the fans for their continued support and enthusiasm! Nothing is possible with you!
K: I think you can chalk that up to the state of the music business. Because of illegal downloading, making an album happen is much more difficult for artists and labels. That’s just a reality we have to face.
When you departed from Beyond Twilight, the whole atmosphere – was at least bad – so how come you guys gave it a second “chance” and let bygones be bygones?
K: Finn and I have a great musical chemistry and we both thought it would be a waste not to create something together again. The past belongs to itself.
Since the band contains 2 guys that were in Beyond Twilight – the successor to Twilight – why didn’t you name the band Way Beyond Twilight (!) and do you consider Zierler Projects to be a bit of a continuation of that, or an entirely different entity?
K: I actually argued this very point but Finn wanted a fresh start. It was going to be called Zierler “Projects” in the beginning but we all discussed that and thought Zierler sounded a bit more organic.
On the album you have a great pool of talent – including you, Truls from Circus Maximus on bass and also more vocals, Bobby Jarzombek, who’s been in Riot, Halford, Fates Warning etc., on drums, obviously Finn on keys and Per, who's in Scar Summetry etc… a bit of a supergroup really. The question here is – was this album presented to the rest of “you” by Finn as a finished project – or were you able to add your own personal touch and performances to it?
K: Finn basically wrote the music and then Per fleshed it all out guitar-wise, adding a ton of his own flavor to the songs Per also played all of the bass on the album. Bobby wrote and played all of his own drum parts. Truls and I wrote the melodies. Finn also wrote most of the lyrics aside from the parts I wrote for “A New Beginning” and “Whispers”. In the end, the album wouldn’t be what it is without the contributions that each and every one of us brought to it.
Was the album done by sending files back and forth – or were you people all gathered at a specific point at one time to do the tracking?
K: There was quite a bit of solitary work going on, since we all live in different countries. I worked on some melody ideas independently and then decided to improvise most of the others while in the studio, which I really enjoyed. I’m not a big fan of recording demos because much of the magic can be lost when you come back and re-record something. So, for the parts that weren’t written yet, I just stood in front of the microphone tried something. Finn and I would listen back to those ideas and keep the parts we liked and build the melodies that way.
The album seems to have a constant theme concerning the ways in which computers and the internet are changing the way we interact with each other socially – taking quite a critical stance... what’s your take on that?
K: Social Media is a double edged sword. Many of us musicians owe our entire careers to being able to communicate via sites like Facebook. That said, on the whole it’s an incredibly empty way to interact with other human beings. For me, the new generation of kids seems to lack a connection to the Earth they live on and the beings they share it with. Instant gratification comes at a terrible price and being able to say cruel things (anonymously) to or about other people without paying any consequence is damaging to the order of things. It leads to a society which believes that nothing is sacred and that nothing has any value, including themselves.
Internet might have made communicating and promoting an album easier, but it also means that people can really get the album – instantly, without paying – which leads a lot of bands and projects to abject failure logistically / financially and finally disillusion and ceasing activities… is there any remedy to that?
K: The digital format was sort of a Trojan Horse in that sense, all these new possibilities but again it’s basically caused people to treat music as something that has no value. When I was a kid, you had to do odd jobs to scrape up enough money to buy an album you wanted. You would listen to it and if you didn’t “get it” on the first spin, you’d listen to it until you did! Because that’s the way the world works, you sacrifice for something that’s important to you. It gives life meaning. Now, people simply download (steal) an album it took years to create and ton of money to produce, they listen to it one time and post a review of it online in order make themselves seem important. Until musicians can download free food to put on our tables, we’ll be asking people to contribute through crowd funding campaigns and selling merchandise for what it takes to make things happen.
Let’s try and figure out, what you’re doing – actively… besides, Zierler and Darkology, who both released albums this year.
K: Recently I did some guest singing on an album called “Full Nothing”. It’s a very somber, melodic album influenced by Katatonia and Evergrey with some well know musicians and singers. Not my usual vocal pyrotechnics but it was nice for a change of pace. I’m always looking for new opportunities to do what I love, so we'll see what the future holds.
Adagio – they did release a couple of demos with you that sounded rather promising – are you still on track with them?
K: I got involved with Adagio a while back and recorded the demos you speak of years ago, since then Stephan (guitarist)has be doing his solo thing. The band has been completely inactive since, so I’ve moved on.
Iron Mask are a local band (to you) and you joined them, since you do seem to have a quiet “Mark Boals-y” higher end when you sing clean, but for now they seem to appear as a “past” band at least in metallum is it real… what happened?
K: With Iron Mask, I was announced a bit pre-maturely. As discussions went on, I realized it just wasn't the right situation for me. They’re nice guys and I wish them the best.
“The un-named project” for lack of a better description, between you and Christian Muezner (ex-Obscura). Is this thing still on?
K: I decided not to continue with that because I wanted to go in a bit of a different musical direction. That would have interfered with Christian’s vision, so I thought it was best to let someone else take over. He and I are still in contact and might do something in the future.
Epysode, Outworld, Firewind and Beyond Τwilight (strictly speaking) are no longer concerns, could you see yourself making a return to any of those projects at one point or other?
K: I’d definitely be into a Beyond Twilight reunion! As for Firewind, I’m still in contact with Gus, who knows, we might do something together again.
Of all the projects bands you’ve been involved in which one was the most gratifying for you as a singer and if you had to drop all others to do just one, which one would you pick?
K: Musically speaking, working with Finn (Beyond Twilight/Zierler) is probably the most gratifying thing I’ve done because it allows me to use my full voice and bring out many sides of myself as an artist and performer. I think he and I will always work together. Another experience that was incredibly important to me was my time with Firewind. We basically toured the world and played huge festivals like Sweden Rock to audiences of over 10,000 people. Being on the road and dealing with that sort of pressure, standing a delivering night after night is another exciting challenge. I’d like to get into another touring band of that caliber in the future.
“Esc” comes out on what I understand is a private entity owned by the band – weren’t any big labels interested in signing up this great “gathering” of musicians?
K: “Esc” has actually been released on Vanity Music Group, an independent record label. Zierler belongs to the underground and although it will get some attention based on the line-up alone and its great songs, we probably won’t have a single on pop radio anytime soon! Again, business-wise the landscape out there has changed drastically in a very short time.
Career wise, even though you’re incredibly talented, do you think the fact that you’ve hardly done more than one albums with any of the projects/bands, with maybe the exception of Darkology and the lack of a strong visual/press presence, has held you back from receiving more recognition? Also at this point in time is Zierler a project, or is a sophomore, at least planned?
K: I have to agree with you on the fact that most of the work that I’ve done has gotten very little exposure and that can be frustrating. Some of them were simply projects that would never tour and some simply fell apart due to a lack of label support or promotion. In this business, you never know when a big opportunity will come your way. You have to be ready for it, knowing that your time will come.
I know that you have tried out for some “famous” bands… was the fact that you were not chosen, their decision – (you don’t have to mention names if you don’t want) because of actual logistics, or because they felt that they had someone who fit the bill – slightly better (ie TMH – in Riot?)…
K: I’ve only auditioned for one band for which I didn’t get the job and that was Masterplan. In the end they chose Mike DiMeo from Riot. In the end, it’s their band and they have to choose who they think fits. I’ve been approached by a few other known bands in the past but turned them down because I just wasn’t into the music.
With the “Zierler” band musicians spread all over the globe, how realistic would the prospect of live performances be?
K: Logistically, a live performance by Zierler would be tough to pull off but you never know.
What’s next in “Kellyspace” obviously a possible tour with Darkology and then… can you divulge any future plans with any of the other bands?
K: I’m always up for new opportunities. We’ll see what happens next.
Weirdo Questions (we always do those to lighten up stuff)… Kelly Almighty– If you were God for a week, what would you do?
K: I’d probably create a domain where all of my friends and family could live which could never be detected by the outside world. A place in nature, where we could grow our own food and live a simple life, untouched by the modern world. Since I’d only be God for a week, wiping out poverty, war and corruption wouldn’t last very long... we are human after all.
Which one of the Seven Deadly Sins are you?
K: Perhaps I have a touch of gluttony. Belgian beer is just too good to resist!
If you could be someone else (man, woman, fictional character, historical figure) who would you chose to be and why?
K: I’ll say Merlin because he’s my favorite character. I’d like to live in a time when people believed in magic. I think the world we live in has pulled the wings off of the butterfly, so to speak. In seeking to understand the world we’ve picked it apart and destroyed our sense of wonder.
In this biz who deserves to be bitch slapped and why? (Don’t say me! Jahahhaha…)
K: Anyone who thinks they are more important than the fans and that goes for artists that believe their own hype.
If your wife/gf sold all of your albums to buy an expensive ring, how would you react? (doubt – you might have a big collection at least in Belgium in physical form– but selling the ring 4 beer is a firm popular! Hehe) all those are for fun remember! Hypothetical + silly.
K: Well, she’s a singer/musician too so that would never happen. Music is our life! Being in Belgium, I’ll trade the expensive jewelry for good Belgian beer any day!
Finish this up in any way you wish…
K: I’d like to thank the fans for their continued support and enthusiasm! Nothing is possible with you!