John Mortimer is a true maverick and a survivor from the NWOBHM days. He’s a man that against many odds has kept his original band Holocaust, moving on in the face of adversity and despite major success, always eluding the band in the process releasing some pretty heavy and very interesting, thought provoking music with lyrics that were always deep and engaging. True “Food For Thought”. The fact that the mighty ‘Tallica, covered a Holo-song does say a lot and also helped along with “payments” coming in pretty often in the past, aiding the band along the way to release its albums. Upon the release of their long delayed and rather unexpected eighth album “Predator”, we felt compelled to sit down with John, when the band debuted the album in Greece and ask away a few questions... Grande Rock transcript service, reporting!
Hello John, it’s good to have you on Grande Rock. First of all do tell us why it has taken you such a very long time to come up with a new album, although you seem to have had the material for it written a while ago?
J: We have had more than enough material for a long time but finding the right record deal was the main problem. There was also the matter of recording and mixing... we all have day jobs and there was only so much time we could commit each week to what was a considerable task.
In the meanwhile you seem to have retired the previous line-up and have gone for a purely Scottish one and a trio as such, was logistics that dictated that and why not a larger formation so as to allow for more complex songs to be performed and to let you concentrate on one role exclusively? Also tell us a bit more about your “new” bandmates.
J: When the Metallica publishing royalties ran out for me there was no apparent future for Holocaust. I had done what I could by trying to break the band and the “Primal” album in the USA and it had failed. As you suggest, logistically, the “Primal” line-up could not continue after the money ran out, with half the band being in the USA. I spent everything I had flying Ron and Bryan over to Scotland to record the album and also flying myself and John over to the States to do some gigs and try to make connections.
When I met Scott Wallace in 2003, he had a home recording studio and was keen to work with me, writing and recording new material. This was purely studio work and we didn’t want to limit ourselves in any way by the idea that the material had to be easy to perform live. Scott and Mark had played together in bands for many years, (most notably with Manny Charlton of Nazareth), and so it was quite natural for Mark to get involved also. The new material we developed between 2003 and 2011 represents a huge concept album. It was only in 2011 that we decided to re-form Holocaust and write songs specifically for Holocaust. We have tried other guitarists and vocalists but no-one right has come along. There comes a point when you have to decide on the format of the band and go forth... in this case as a trio.
Tell us a bit more about the album itself, recording it and a bit about the inspiration behind each song?
J: It was recorded at Scott’s home studio, where we were free to take as much time as we needed. Having said that, it was a very focused and intense project – no time was wasted.
The inspiration behind each song – well, first off the title track is about sexual energy and its total disregard for any social or moral repressions. There is a hint in the middle section that sexual energy can be used for more than just sex.
“Expander” is inspired by that principle within us that drives expansion of consciousness through new experiences and learning.
“Can’t Go Wrong With You” is a song sung by me to Lady Gaga.
“Lady Babalon” is inspired by the occult figure of the same name. The author of the Book of Revelation in the Bible refers to her as the “Whore of Babylon”.
“Observer One” is inspired by the fact that whatever may be happening to me it is observed by “me”. Who then is this “me”, who observes what is happening to me?
“Shiva” is inspired by the concept of the divine masculine and takes its name from the Hindu god.
“Shine Out” is inspired by the idea that what we are ultimately is pure consciousness.
“Revival” is inspired by the divine feminine and features the Hindu goddess Shakti, (consort of Shiva), in the lyrics. Partly the title refers to the revival of the feminine divine in the spirituality of the West. For many, many centuries our spirituality in the West and the Middle East has been exclusively masculine divine, thanks to Judaism, Christianity and Islam. That complete imbalance has serious consequences.
“What I Live For” is about the Holocaust fans and my relationship to them. I need Holocaust to be an ever-growing entity and without the Holocaust fans that cannot be.
While a title such as “Predator” tends to sound quite aggressive, this album is far from being your most aggressive, even though in places it’s pretty dynamic and heavy...
J: I agree. There was some internal band debate about the album title and “Predator” was not my first choice. I can live with it, though. It’s very “Metal”, and that is the image we want to put over. We have some pretty radical material in store for the future but we don’t want people thinking that somehow we are leaving the Metal genre… that will never happen.
What’s Holocaust to you today and how do you think the circumstances have changed between now and when you started the band?
J: From one point of view Holocaust is exactly the same to me as it was in the late 1970s. There is a total enthusiasm for Metal and a complete rejection of any idea of limitations being imposed on that style. I believed passionately when I was a teenager that Metal would, (and should), expand and develop in all sorts of ways. When you look at the vast spectrum of Metal today, clearly I was thinking and feeling along the right lines! So in that way the situation is exactly the same. What has changed is the number of different musical styles I have explored in my own listening. Also, the sheer number of life experiences over 35 years has inevitably altered me.
You’ve always remained an “underground” band, despite being covered by Metallica and despite having at least a couple of releases that might have fared better commercially, what do you think caused a fair amount of NWOBHM bands to rise up to a higher level, while an equally fair amount of quite talented ones to not manage to step up to the plate?
J: No internet, no digital music back in the early 1980s meant that only those bands that got the attention of the big media and the big record labels became famous. The music world is better now for the NWOBHM bands that never made it big in the past because of two things: 1) The internet and 2) Budget airlines, (meaning that European gigs are financially feasible)…
Also having been a relative “underdog”, is it something that “annoyed you”? I was watching a documentary on someone who “almost” made it at one point and while he is still at it with seemingly zero hopes of success, his partner, who was also part of his show, mentioned, she couldn’t take the heartache of “failing” a second time... he pretty much like Anvil then proceeds to play in front of single number crowds at festivals etc....
J: Well, it kind of annoyed me, as you can imagine. However, I am very philosophical about it all and I believe I was not in the right state to be famous in years gone by – not even in the days of “Primal”. Now, however, I am in the right state and I will be famous.
One of the things that always slightly irks me, about Holocaust albums is their production – I’ve learned to tolerate it – even somewhat expect it but I always thought a lot of the bands appeal, is sort of “lost” because of its “jaded” production values, do you agree?
J: Again, I am philosophical about this. The albums represent what was happening at the time and there is a certain charm about the “poor” production. I find that I positively like some of the “dreadful” production on Norwegian Black Metal albums just as I loved some of the strange, (to put it mildly), production on the Joy Division material. There are many examples I could cite of this. No, I am glad just to let things be as they are and move on. We do all want to get into big luxurious productions and it will happen sooner or later for Holocaust, never fear!
Also ages ago, probably prior to “Primal” and 9/11, I did an interview with you and you were at a time at an Edi Uni (I think) and discussing religion you had weirdly said, you were anticipating that fundamentalists would probably manifest in some way... and lo and behold a couple of years after that it did happen. You even have a song named “Fundamentalist” in “The Courage to Be”... I’m curious as to how you see things today... intolerance and “war-like” precursor conditions seem to be happening all over again... could it be that the “third chapter” is soon to be written??? Or is the world too “mild” these days to take another one?
J: Yes, I remember that. I did indeed sense that Fundamentalism would break through into the forefront of Western concern. The reason was that there was no attempt whatever made in the West to understand where fundamentalism comes from. Without such an understanding being formed in the West, (where economic and technical power has resided for the past 200 years or so), the forces of fundamentalism are simply ignored until they explode, as militant Islam has exploded. I do not believe there will be any World War III scenario unfolding. It is not intolerance that is the main problem in the world today, it is ignorance. That ignorance will be dissipated one way or another – even if through very unpleasant, fearful and distressing lessons.
Also you did sign with a Greek label, Sleaszy Rider. Can you tell us a few more detail about the circumstances around that?
J: Yes, they are great for us because they do not try to impose any conditions on how we develop as a band or which directions the new material takes. Basically we met Tolis, (founder and owner of the label), through a mutual friend.
Your recent tour in Greece was quite a bit of a letdown, with low attendance, strikes meaning shows had to be cancelled etc... blame it on circumstances, or is the “beast”/music scene dying it’s last breath?
J: No, it is definitely the economic crisis taking its toll. Again, from the internet it is as clear as day to us that there is huge enthusiasm for Metal in Greece but shows will be poorly attended and album sales reduced... that is only to be expected.
Time for our “weird questions”!!! How did you come up with the name Holocaust in the first place?
J: At the time, (late 1970s), there was colossal fear and anxiety about nuclear war between the USSR and the USA. The idea of nuclear holocaust was continually being referenced in the media. My thought was that a Heavy Metal band should sound like a nuclear bomb going off, (and the stage show should look like that)! The origin of the name was in that obsessive fear of nuclear war at the time.
John Almighty – what would you do if you were God for a week?
J: Resurrect Lemmy and a few others.
If you had the chance to travel in time… where would you choose to go? To the past or the future and why?
J: I would travel to the ancient civilization of Sumer around 4,000 BCE because I believe that within that civilization was the true knowledge of modern humanity’s origins. It is tempting to go with this idea of traveling to the future but I believe that is impossible.
Which of the Seven Deadly Sins, do you identify as being you?
J: I’d have to pick Lust, (with Wrath lurking around in the background).
If you could be any historical person, which one would you be and why?
J: The Indian sage, Nisargadatta Maharaj, (who only died recently, in 1981). I would have given anything to know what it was like just to BE him, to experience what he experienced within himself. People like Gautama Buddha are obviously attractive possibilities also, but there are many somewhat mythical aspects to “the Buddha” and the truth is we don’t really know much about him. With Nisargadatta, there are many transcripts of conversations he had and I definitely would choose to be him, even if only for a moment.
Which do you consider to be the best male vocalist in rock/metal history?
J: I think overall I would say Bruce Dickinson because I was right at the front for a gig he did with Samson in the same venue the Holocaust “Live – Hot Curry and Wine” album was recorded in, the Edinburgh Nite Club. He had an extremely bad cold, (and I mean extremely bad... bad enough for most people to cancel!), which was even more obvious backstage when I got to meet him and Paul after the show. In spite of being so ill, his performance was technically awesome and full of spirit. That is the kind of character that Metal is made of! And no-one can seriously deny that he’s a great vocalist, can they?!
Which are the best 3 heavy metal albums of all time according to you?
J: I just can’t answer that, sorry. The spectrum of Metal is so wide.... and I can’t even say what my favourites are within a given sub-genre, because that varies with my mood.
Were you obliged to give just one album to extraterrestrials that would represent the whole human music, which album would it be and from which band/artist?
J: I would say a really good recording of Gustav Mahler’s “Second Symphony”. But if you mean by modern artists, either “Hemispheres” by Rush or “Wish You Were Here” by Pink Floyd.
Fill in the phrase… “NWOBHM wouldn’t have evolved the way it did, if it hadn’t been for…”
J: ... Punks not liking guys having long hair. Seriously – the Punk attitude was brought into Heavy Rock, (and helped to form Metal), because of so many guys who would have been Punks and gone on to Killing Joke type post-punk were it not for the fact that the Punk culture totally despised long hair and Heavy Rock bands.
Who is the sexiest female Rock Star of all time?
J: No idea! All the people that spring to mind are Indie or Pop. Women haven’t really made much of a breakthrough in Classic Rock.
What’s the worst thing you can say right after sex?
J: “I need a fag now...”???!!!
Imagine that your girlfriend/wife is selling your whole album-collection just to buy an expensive ring for herself. How would you react?
J: With concern.
Thank you John for talking to Grande Rock. Close this as you wish. Take care dude!
J: Hail Satan! \m/
J: We have had more than enough material for a long time but finding the right record deal was the main problem. There was also the matter of recording and mixing... we all have day jobs and there was only so much time we could commit each week to what was a considerable task.
In the meanwhile you seem to have retired the previous line-up and have gone for a purely Scottish one and a trio as such, was logistics that dictated that and why not a larger formation so as to allow for more complex songs to be performed and to let you concentrate on one role exclusively? Also tell us a bit more about your “new” bandmates.
J: When the Metallica publishing royalties ran out for me there was no apparent future for Holocaust. I had done what I could by trying to break the band and the “Primal” album in the USA and it had failed. As you suggest, logistically, the “Primal” line-up could not continue after the money ran out, with half the band being in the USA. I spent everything I had flying Ron and Bryan over to Scotland to record the album and also flying myself and John over to the States to do some gigs and try to make connections.
When I met Scott Wallace in 2003, he had a home recording studio and was keen to work with me, writing and recording new material. This was purely studio work and we didn’t want to limit ourselves in any way by the idea that the material had to be easy to perform live. Scott and Mark had played together in bands for many years, (most notably with Manny Charlton of Nazareth), and so it was quite natural for Mark to get involved also. The new material we developed between 2003 and 2011 represents a huge concept album. It was only in 2011 that we decided to re-form Holocaust and write songs specifically for Holocaust. We have tried other guitarists and vocalists but no-one right has come along. There comes a point when you have to decide on the format of the band and go forth... in this case as a trio.
Tell us a bit more about the album itself, recording it and a bit about the inspiration behind each song?
J: It was recorded at Scott’s home studio, where we were free to take as much time as we needed. Having said that, it was a very focused and intense project – no time was wasted.
The inspiration behind each song – well, first off the title track is about sexual energy and its total disregard for any social or moral repressions. There is a hint in the middle section that sexual energy can be used for more than just sex.
“Expander” is inspired by that principle within us that drives expansion of consciousness through new experiences and learning.
“Can’t Go Wrong With You” is a song sung by me to Lady Gaga.
“Lady Babalon” is inspired by the occult figure of the same name. The author of the Book of Revelation in the Bible refers to her as the “Whore of Babylon”.
“Observer One” is inspired by the fact that whatever may be happening to me it is observed by “me”. Who then is this “me”, who observes what is happening to me?
“Shiva” is inspired by the concept of the divine masculine and takes its name from the Hindu god.
“Shine Out” is inspired by the idea that what we are ultimately is pure consciousness.
“Revival” is inspired by the divine feminine and features the Hindu goddess Shakti, (consort of Shiva), in the lyrics. Partly the title refers to the revival of the feminine divine in the spirituality of the West. For many, many centuries our spirituality in the West and the Middle East has been exclusively masculine divine, thanks to Judaism, Christianity and Islam. That complete imbalance has serious consequences.
“What I Live For” is about the Holocaust fans and my relationship to them. I need Holocaust to be an ever-growing entity and without the Holocaust fans that cannot be.
While a title such as “Predator” tends to sound quite aggressive, this album is far from being your most aggressive, even though in places it’s pretty dynamic and heavy...
J: I agree. There was some internal band debate about the album title and “Predator” was not my first choice. I can live with it, though. It’s very “Metal”, and that is the image we want to put over. We have some pretty radical material in store for the future but we don’t want people thinking that somehow we are leaving the Metal genre… that will never happen.
What’s Holocaust to you today and how do you think the circumstances have changed between now and when you started the band?
J: From one point of view Holocaust is exactly the same to me as it was in the late 1970s. There is a total enthusiasm for Metal and a complete rejection of any idea of limitations being imposed on that style. I believed passionately when I was a teenager that Metal would, (and should), expand and develop in all sorts of ways. When you look at the vast spectrum of Metal today, clearly I was thinking and feeling along the right lines! So in that way the situation is exactly the same. What has changed is the number of different musical styles I have explored in my own listening. Also, the sheer number of life experiences over 35 years has inevitably altered me.
You’ve always remained an “underground” band, despite being covered by Metallica and despite having at least a couple of releases that might have fared better commercially, what do you think caused a fair amount of NWOBHM bands to rise up to a higher level, while an equally fair amount of quite talented ones to not manage to step up to the plate?
J: No internet, no digital music back in the early 1980s meant that only those bands that got the attention of the big media and the big record labels became famous. The music world is better now for the NWOBHM bands that never made it big in the past because of two things: 1) The internet and 2) Budget airlines, (meaning that European gigs are financially feasible)…
Also having been a relative “underdog”, is it something that “annoyed you”? I was watching a documentary on someone who “almost” made it at one point and while he is still at it with seemingly zero hopes of success, his partner, who was also part of his show, mentioned, she couldn’t take the heartache of “failing” a second time... he pretty much like Anvil then proceeds to play in front of single number crowds at festivals etc....
J: Well, it kind of annoyed me, as you can imagine. However, I am very philosophical about it all and I believe I was not in the right state to be famous in years gone by – not even in the days of “Primal”. Now, however, I am in the right state and I will be famous.
One of the things that always slightly irks me, about Holocaust albums is their production – I’ve learned to tolerate it – even somewhat expect it but I always thought a lot of the bands appeal, is sort of “lost” because of its “jaded” production values, do you agree?
J: Again, I am philosophical about this. The albums represent what was happening at the time and there is a certain charm about the “poor” production. I find that I positively like some of the “dreadful” production on Norwegian Black Metal albums just as I loved some of the strange, (to put it mildly), production on the Joy Division material. There are many examples I could cite of this. No, I am glad just to let things be as they are and move on. We do all want to get into big luxurious productions and it will happen sooner or later for Holocaust, never fear!
Also ages ago, probably prior to “Primal” and 9/11, I did an interview with you and you were at a time at an Edi Uni (I think) and discussing religion you had weirdly said, you were anticipating that fundamentalists would probably manifest in some way... and lo and behold a couple of years after that it did happen. You even have a song named “Fundamentalist” in “The Courage to Be”... I’m curious as to how you see things today... intolerance and “war-like” precursor conditions seem to be happening all over again... could it be that the “third chapter” is soon to be written??? Or is the world too “mild” these days to take another one?
J: Yes, I remember that. I did indeed sense that Fundamentalism would break through into the forefront of Western concern. The reason was that there was no attempt whatever made in the West to understand where fundamentalism comes from. Without such an understanding being formed in the West, (where economic and technical power has resided for the past 200 years or so), the forces of fundamentalism are simply ignored until they explode, as militant Islam has exploded. I do not believe there will be any World War III scenario unfolding. It is not intolerance that is the main problem in the world today, it is ignorance. That ignorance will be dissipated one way or another – even if through very unpleasant, fearful and distressing lessons.
Also you did sign with a Greek label, Sleaszy Rider. Can you tell us a few more detail about the circumstances around that?
J: Yes, they are great for us because they do not try to impose any conditions on how we develop as a band or which directions the new material takes. Basically we met Tolis, (founder and owner of the label), through a mutual friend.
Your recent tour in Greece was quite a bit of a letdown, with low attendance, strikes meaning shows had to be cancelled etc... blame it on circumstances, or is the “beast”/music scene dying it’s last breath?
J: No, it is definitely the economic crisis taking its toll. Again, from the internet it is as clear as day to us that there is huge enthusiasm for Metal in Greece but shows will be poorly attended and album sales reduced... that is only to be expected.
Time for our “weird questions”!!! How did you come up with the name Holocaust in the first place?
J: At the time, (late 1970s), there was colossal fear and anxiety about nuclear war between the USSR and the USA. The idea of nuclear holocaust was continually being referenced in the media. My thought was that a Heavy Metal band should sound like a nuclear bomb going off, (and the stage show should look like that)! The origin of the name was in that obsessive fear of nuclear war at the time.
John Almighty – what would you do if you were God for a week?
J: Resurrect Lemmy and a few others.
If you had the chance to travel in time… where would you choose to go? To the past or the future and why?
J: I would travel to the ancient civilization of Sumer around 4,000 BCE because I believe that within that civilization was the true knowledge of modern humanity’s origins. It is tempting to go with this idea of traveling to the future but I believe that is impossible.
Which of the Seven Deadly Sins, do you identify as being you?
J: I’d have to pick Lust, (with Wrath lurking around in the background).
If you could be any historical person, which one would you be and why?
J: The Indian sage, Nisargadatta Maharaj, (who only died recently, in 1981). I would have given anything to know what it was like just to BE him, to experience what he experienced within himself. People like Gautama Buddha are obviously attractive possibilities also, but there are many somewhat mythical aspects to “the Buddha” and the truth is we don’t really know much about him. With Nisargadatta, there are many transcripts of conversations he had and I definitely would choose to be him, even if only for a moment.
Which do you consider to be the best male vocalist in rock/metal history?
J: I think overall I would say Bruce Dickinson because I was right at the front for a gig he did with Samson in the same venue the Holocaust “Live – Hot Curry and Wine” album was recorded in, the Edinburgh Nite Club. He had an extremely bad cold, (and I mean extremely bad... bad enough for most people to cancel!), which was even more obvious backstage when I got to meet him and Paul after the show. In spite of being so ill, his performance was technically awesome and full of spirit. That is the kind of character that Metal is made of! And no-one can seriously deny that he’s a great vocalist, can they?!
Which are the best 3 heavy metal albums of all time according to you?
J: I just can’t answer that, sorry. The spectrum of Metal is so wide.... and I can’t even say what my favourites are within a given sub-genre, because that varies with my mood.
Were you obliged to give just one album to extraterrestrials that would represent the whole human music, which album would it be and from which band/artist?
J: I would say a really good recording of Gustav Mahler’s “Second Symphony”. But if you mean by modern artists, either “Hemispheres” by Rush or “Wish You Were Here” by Pink Floyd.
Fill in the phrase… “NWOBHM wouldn’t have evolved the way it did, if it hadn’t been for…”
J: ... Punks not liking guys having long hair. Seriously – the Punk attitude was brought into Heavy Rock, (and helped to form Metal), because of so many guys who would have been Punks and gone on to Killing Joke type post-punk were it not for the fact that the Punk culture totally despised long hair and Heavy Rock bands.
Who is the sexiest female Rock Star of all time?
J: No idea! All the people that spring to mind are Indie or Pop. Women haven’t really made much of a breakthrough in Classic Rock.
What’s the worst thing you can say right after sex?
J: “I need a fag now...”???!!!
Imagine that your girlfriend/wife is selling your whole album-collection just to buy an expensive ring for herself. How would you react?
J: With concern.
Thank you John for talking to Grande Rock. Close this as you wish. Take care dude!
J: Hail Satan! \m/